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kjv@Jude:1 @ @ RandyP comments: Compare this with 2Peter. In kjv@2Petter:1:5-8 contenders for the like precious faith begin by adding to their faith virtue (valor towards excellence) knowledge (revealed, spiritual) temperance (against similar brute knowledge) patience (persistence) godliness (living forward, spiritual obedience) brotherly kindness (striving for the unity of the Spirit) and charity (Agape love).

kjv@Revelation:13:7 @ @ RandyP comments: The point I am trying to make is that if the Church and these saints are one in the same, then it is the Church that is overcome. In order for the Church to be overcome then the Holy Spirit has to be overcome or He has to leave us to our own. Scripture suggests that neither can happen! To be overcome is to be put back into bondage to. The Church being put back into bondage after the blood and resurrection of Christ? After the forever indwelling of the Comforter? Even for a short time - Where is the sense? If instead these are new believers after the Church has been raptured, they are by virtue of this peculiar time frame merely transitional (Spirit-less/Church-less) believers still awaiting the Spirit with patience and faith.

kjv@Zechariah:10 @ @ RandyP comments: Idols don't speak, men hear what they want to here from them and over the years they have heard plenty, all of it vanity. The signs are plain for all to see, but, what the diviners take from it is a lie, they see what they want to see, all of it vanity. Men are troubled because there is no shepherd or so they think, they comfort each other in vain. These were the shepherds they thought missing and the Lord's anger was kindled against them. Shepherds must stand for what is true, often a most difficult and sacrificial task. Instead, as a whole they lead the flock away and so the Lord dispersed them. Faithful leaders need to add to their faith virtue (Valor/Excellence), knowledge (revealed), temperance (physical/spiritual), patience, godliness, brotherly kindness, and charity (agape) in order to be fruitful in the knowledge of Christ kjv@2Peter:1:5-8 . There are leaders amongst us today that need much of the same. We have one Shepherd but several pastors.