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kjv@Revelation:13:4 @ @ RandyP comments: The thought of warring against the beast is there it seems but, the futility of doing so is obvious. Can you imagine the United States for instance backing off from a war due to it's inferiority? Worse yet, could you imagine the strength of the USA standing firmly behind such a leader?

kjv@Revelation:13:7 @ @ RandyP comments: Are the saints the not yet raptured Church? To make war with the saints suggests that the saints are no longer dispersed or that they are dispersed but banded into target-able formations. To be overcome as the Church however rubs against a whole lot of scripture, namely kjv@1John:2:14 kjv@1John:4:4 kjv@1John:5:4 kjv@John:14:16 kjv@2Peter:2:19 kjv@2Peter:2:20 kjv@1Corinthians:3:16 kjv@Hebrews:1:14

kjv@Revelation:13:10 @ @ RandyP comments: A great many men (most of them well meaning) will be guilty of leading their own people into captivity; these men will not escape this captivity themselves. A great many men will kill by the sword either for themselves or for their kin or for their nation or for pure survival and necessity; these men shall not escape either. As short as the time left is, there is a time appointed for this be completely fulfilled. Here is a clue to what it will mean for those latter day saints to have faith and patience.

kjv@Revelation:13:7 @ @ RandyP comments: The point I am trying to make is that if the Church and these saints are one in the same, then it is the Church that is overcome. In order for the Church to be overcome then the Holy Spirit has to be overcome or He has to leave us to our own. Scripture suggests that neither can happen! To be overcome is to be put back into bondage to. The Church being put back into bondage after the blood and resurrection of Christ? After the forever indwelling of the Comforter? Even for a short time - Where is the sense? If instead these are new believers after the Church has been raptured, they are by virtue of this peculiar time frame merely transitional (Spirit-less/Church-less) believers still awaiting the Spirit with patience and faith.

kjv@Revelation:14:12 @ @ RandyP comments: Nearly the same thing is said kjv@Revelation:13:10. First in regards to the captivity of those who lead the peoples captive to the beast. Here in regards to the eternal smoke and torment from the pit of those who worshiped the beast and received his mark. The patience is in holding true throughout for as long as it takes.

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