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November19 @ @ rRandyP comments: mFaithOfJesus kjv@John:8:48-59 BEFORE ABRAHAM - Stones are drawn. How serious of an offence must one be convinced of if to be party to a stoning execution (and in/near the Temple). Jesus had said that men hate Him because He testifies of the evil in the world. Evil you would think would be ax murderers and rapists, thieves and the such. I don't recall Jesus testifying to this all that much.. Who would imagine evil to be the religious types seeking to kill Christ? The equality claim of Jesus to the Father seems to be the primary issue. It was brought to light by the mention of the pre-incarnate existence and work of Jesus and the use of the sacred title "I AM" of kjv@Exodus:3:14. Though Jesus physically can not be stoned nowadays the religious attitude and effort can still be just the same. It is interesting that witnesses saw both Abraham and Elijah standing with Jesus, but were sworn not to testify of this till after the resurrection. It is also interesting that Jesus doesn't go immediately to the prophecies like kjv@Micah:5:2 "whose goings forth are from old" kjv@Isaiah:9:6 "and His name shall be.. Mighty God" kjv@Proverbs:8:22-30 "possessed me in the beginning" etc.. Nor does He rebut them here with the logic of David's seed being his present tense "Lord" or the "who did Moses see if no man has ever seen the Father and lived". The question is not so much why He didn't do any of this here because He was revealing their own hearts, it is more when and whom was going to do this for Him. The faith of our Lord again comes back down to the Father's timing. This was not the time to convince, but to convict. This was not His time to die. This was not how He was going to die and nothing that they could conceive of doing to Him was going to be anything more than a insight into the evil that clings to man even to this day. Who then is to testify of the pre and post incarnate and incarnate sovereignty of Jesus? We are by the Holy Spirit When? Now To whom? The religious types that still today would stone Jesus (or us His ambassadors) for the very thought. "If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death". What saying? These sayings. What death? The second (eternal spiritual) death.